There seems to be this idea lately that a horse that shows any kind of stress is a bad thing, when in reality it is a part of life, not just for horses but for all living things. Not only that, but we all have naturally built in mechanisms to cope with stress (horses included). Along those same lines, a horse who has worked through a stressful situation, whether by itself or with a human’s help, learns how handle stress better than one who has been taught to avoid stress. I’m sure you are learning this in the classes you are taking at UNT.

One other thing and then I’ll be quiet Here’s a question for you. What method is used in the horse world when one horse is teaching another a task, such as moving away from a pile of hay? Is it positive reinforcement, or is it pressure and release? Horses hit the ground understanding pressure and release, so in my mind it isn’t the monster technique a lot of people make it out to be. How the technique is used is what causes the problem. I have seen a lot of horses who have been trained in positive reinforcement over a long period of time who become pushy with their owners, rush through tasks just so they can get the treat at the end, and sometimes even perform the task with ears pinned tails wringing and feet stomping. Why? Because the technique wasn’t used properly. The same thing can happen with a horse who is trained with pressure and release. By the same token, there are a lot of horses out there, some trained with positive reinforcement, some with pressure and release (I don’t believe that is negative reinforcement) that are equally as happy. In the end, isn’t that what’s important, rather than what technique was used to get it there?

The horse Mr. Rashid used for the DVD understood the task in a relatively short period of time, then happily did it thereafter. The stress she went through to get there was minimal under the circumstances, and now folks who would use the technique he prescribed will understand how to work through a similar situation having seen the stages the horse went through to get to a balanced state of mind…which in my opinion, was the whole point of the DVD. Remember, the title of the DVD wasn’t “Ground Driving 101 – Using Clicker Training”. That may be a DVD you might think about putting out. If you did, I would defend it just as strongly as I am this one, as I feel techniques should be judged on their own merit, not against each other (which is what you’ve done here). You are comparing positive reinforcement to pressure and release – apples to oranges. Positive reinforcement isn’t better than pressure and release. It’s only better for you. Just as pressure and release isn’t better than positive reinforcement. They are simply different means to get to the same end.

Thank you very much for allowing me to express my opinion.

Thanks so much for the long comment. I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion. One of the most interesting things I find about talking with other trainers is how our different perspectives and past experiences greatly color how we view different training situations. Obviously, you and I watched the same DVD but came away with very different conclusions!

As you point out, the horse does seem to be inexperienced with the target section. However, for the rest of the tape, the horse appears pretty experienced with the tasks. I would have liked to see Mark Rashid teach a green horse to be comfortable with ropes, practice the lunging exercises with a horse new to circling and ground drive a horse who has never experienced ground driving before. I liked seeing the few issues that did come up, I just would like to see more indepth footage and explanations of how to deal with potential problems at all stages of the training.

“Five minutes to teach a horse how to target without the use of treats and from thirty feet away attached to two driving lines does not seem like a lot of time to me. Nor did I notice the mare overly stressed during that process as the reviewer suggests.”

Stress is a label and has different connotations to different people. What I saw was a horse that was high-headed and tense throughout her body. She did not completely understand the task. When she got to the target, she’d move away and then had to be corrected and brought back. At one point, she backed up half the length of the pen rather than go forward, quick movements, head held high with a worried look on her face. She seemed to be trying out different things, trying to figure out what worked, rather than understand what she was suppose to do.

It’s impossible to eliminate all confusion and frustration from the learning process. However, I’m a big believer that if and when we can eliminate it, we should! For me and my horses, 5 minutes of stress and confusion related behaviors while the horse tries to figure out what is correct is 5 minutes too many. If this had been done in 2 parts—teach the horse to target and then apply targeting to ground driving, it would not have taken anymore time, maybe even less time. Also, it would have likely been a more positive learning experience for the horse, as she would have made less errors.

Traditional training often forces the horse to learn by trial and error. The trainer gives the cue and horse has to figure out what the cue means. And horses often figure this out fast, especially if the trainer is skilled at negative reinforcement (pressure/release). However, wrong responses then have to be corrected, which is stressful for both horse and human. Instead, I find if I build behavior in smaller increments, reinforcing even the slightest try, I can eliminate much of the confusion and many of the wrong responses.

cheers,

Mary

The reviewer also made a point to say that the time spent ground driving and longing took around 30 minutes (suggesting not much time was spent on the ground driving part of the DVD) but then also said it took “a while for the mare to figure it out” in regard to the targeting part of the DVD (suggesting the mare was stressed for an extended period of time). I have had the opportunity to watch this DVD since first reading this review, and the mare in question picked up on the targeting aspect of the process in less than five minutes. It is important to note that there were no cutaways during that part of the DVD, meaning the process was filmed in real time. Five minutes to teach a horse how to target without the use of treats and from thirty feet away attached to two driving lines does not seem like a lot of time to me. Nor did I notice the mare overly stressed during that process as the reviewer suggests. I further disagree with the fact there were no releases during the targeting exercise. There obviously were, albeit they were very small, otherwise the horse wouldn’t have learned the task to begin with, and certainly wouldn’t have learned it as quickly as she did.

In conclusion I believe the reviewer missed the whole point of the DVD. The title “Ground Driving 101″ suggests that it is an introduction to ground driving, in other words, how to get started with the process. And in my opinion and as an instructor with over thirty five years of experience, I believe the DVD does a wonderful job doing that very thing. Unlike the reviewer, I would highly recommend this DVD to anyone looking for an introduction to longing and ground driving. It is very informative and packed with information that is easy to understand for the novice as well as experienced horse person.
Sandy