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	<title>Comments on: Phrenology for Horses?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/</link>
	<description>a serial for positive animal training</description>
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		<title>By: Randy @ dog training basics</title>
		<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/comment-page-1/#comment-2088</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy @ dog training basics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=72#comment-2088</guid>
		<description>Interesting, I have not heard about this</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, I have not heard about this</p>
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		<title>By: Mary H.</title>
		<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 04:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=72#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Hi Kim, 

Thank you for your thorough reply. 

I think one of the biggest problems I have with using conformation to judge personality is that it assumes causality. 

There sometimes are noticeable correlations between conformation and personality traits. For instance, arabs usually have dished-noses and arabs are usually high-spirited. But just because two traits are often seen together does not mean that one causes the other. Having a dished-face does not mean that a horse will automatically be high spirited. 

I think my main complaint with the quirk bumps (and some of LTJs other theories) is that it cannot be scientific because it is not falsifiable. Depending on how you interpret your quirk bump horse, any horse with a quirk bump could fit that description. 

I have not actually read the entire book. I&#039;ve only glanced through it and discussed it with friends. I will see if I can&#039;t get my hands on it, and then do a thorough, proper review of the whole book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kim, </p>
<p>Thank you for your thorough reply. </p>
<p>I think one of the biggest problems I have with using conformation to judge personality is that it assumes causality. </p>
<p>There sometimes are noticeable correlations between conformation and personality traits. For instance, arabs usually have dished-noses and arabs are usually high-spirited. But just because two traits are often seen together does not mean that one causes the other. Having a dished-face does not mean that a horse will automatically be high spirited. </p>
<p>I think my main complaint with the quirk bumps (and some of LTJs other theories) is that it cannot be scientific because it is not falsifiable. Depending on how you interpret your quirk bump horse, any horse with a quirk bump could fit that description. </p>
<p>I have not actually read the entire book. I&#8217;ve only glanced through it and discussed it with friends. I will see if I can&#8217;t get my hands on it, and then do a thorough, proper review of the whole book.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Cox Carneal</title>
		<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Cox Carneal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=72#comment-23</guid>
		<description>oooh, a typo in paragraph 4. SOrry for being a sloppy typist and making my meaning hard to understand. 
&quot;the beginnings of...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oooh, a typo in paragraph 4. SOrry for being a sloppy typist and making my meaning hard to understand.<br />
&#8220;the beginnings of&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Cox Carneal</title>
		<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Cox Carneal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=72#comment-22</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been thinking for &lt;em&gt;days&lt;/em&gt; about how to respond to this post without getting myself in trouble in many arenas. So I&quot;m just going to go ahead and jump in. I&#039;ll look where I&#039;m going to land later. 

Your post made me giggle at first because it&#039;s exactly the way I, as someone trained in science, would approach anything presented to me in the way this book is presented. Way too touchy-feely. Not enough research to back up the pseudoscience. 

In fact, my first few trainings with Linda filled me with an uncomfortable desire to interrupt every few minutes with objections based on the lack of scientific proof for what she was saying. 

If I&#039;d bothered to listen, the beginning so that proof are everywhere, with only a few exceptions. You happened upon one of the exceptions, and to this day, I cringe a little bit when people point this out. 

The second half of the book you reference is very valuable. And in a way it helps to validate some of the data from the first half. Pointing out ways in which conformation affects behavior is very helpful. A horse whose eyes are set so widely apart that he can&#039;t see in front of him will spook at things ahead. We have to accept h=this and handle him accordingly. 

A high-headed horse whose legs sit behind the vertical may have significant difficulty cantering rounded and collected, and may act out because of discomfort, It will pay to know why and not force the issue. 

I think that, while it contains some questionable material, this book is very valuable in two ways:
1. it stresses conformational suitability of the horse to the task, and 
2. it asks people to look more closely at their horses to verify the reasons behind possibly behavioral issues. They might learn that those issues are due to conformational mismatches or problems that they cannot help. 

In terms of observational and intuitive understanding of the horse, you can&#039;t beat Linda Tellington-Jones. What you do with the information is up to the reader. But take a look at the second half of the book. Dismiss the quirk bumps if you like, but there&#039;s more to the rest of the material than that. 

OK, I think I&#039;ve said my piece. 

Blast away! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking for <em>days</em> about how to respond to this post without getting myself in trouble in many arenas. So I&#8221;m just going to go ahead and jump in. I&#8217;ll look where I&#8217;m going to land later. </p>
<p>Your post made me giggle at first because it&#8217;s exactly the way I, as someone trained in science, would approach anything presented to me in the way this book is presented. Way too touchy-feely. Not enough research to back up the pseudoscience. </p>
<p>In fact, my first few trainings with Linda filled me with an uncomfortable desire to interrupt every few minutes with objections based on the lack of scientific proof for what she was saying. </p>
<p>If I&#8217;d bothered to listen, the beginning so that proof are everywhere, with only a few exceptions. You happened upon one of the exceptions, and to this day, I cringe a little bit when people point this out. </p>
<p>The second half of the book you reference is very valuable. And in a way it helps to validate some of the data from the first half. Pointing out ways in which conformation affects behavior is very helpful. A horse whose eyes are set so widely apart that he can&#8217;t see in front of him will spook at things ahead. We have to accept h=this and handle him accordingly. </p>
<p>A high-headed horse whose legs sit behind the vertical may have significant difficulty cantering rounded and collected, and may act out because of discomfort, It will pay to know why and not force the issue. </p>
<p>I think that, while it contains some questionable material, this book is very valuable in two ways:<br />
1. it stresses conformational suitability of the horse to the task, and<br />
2. it asks people to look more closely at their horses to verify the reasons behind possibly behavioral issues. They might learn that those issues are due to conformational mismatches or problems that they cannot help. </p>
<p>In terms of observational and intuitive understanding of the horse, you can&#8217;t beat Linda Tellington-Jones. What you do with the information is up to the reader. But take a look at the second half of the book. Dismiss the quirk bumps if you like, but there&#8217;s more to the rest of the material than that. </p>
<p>OK, I think I&#8217;ve said my piece. </p>
<p>Blast away! <img src='http://stalecheerios.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mary H.</title>
		<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 06:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=72#comment-18</guid>
		<description>We are pretty close!

I think clicker training tends to work well with most horses, but it helps to know somewhat what your doing. Alexandra Kurland has some great resources for clicker training with horses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are pretty close!</p>
<p>I think clicker training tends to work well with most horses, but it helps to know somewhat what your doing. Alexandra Kurland has some great resources for clicker training with horses.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah Fry</title>
		<link>http://stalecheerios.com/blog/horse-training/phrenology-for-horses/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah Fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=72#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Thanks for visiting my blog. I&#039;ll take another look at clicker training. We probably live pretty close to each other. I live north of Denton &amp; Sanger, south of Gainesville. My address says Valley View, but I live in Mountain Springs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for visiting my blog. I&#8217;ll take another look at clicker training. We probably live pretty close to each other. I live north of Denton &amp; Sanger, south of Gainesville. My address says Valley View, but I live in Mountain Springs.</p>
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