Comments on: Which comes first, the behavior or the cue? http://stalecheerios.com/blog/training-tips/which-comes-first-the-behavior-or-the-cue/ a serial for positive animal training Sun, 20 May 2012 03:33:35 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mary Hunter http://stalecheerios.com/blog/training-tips/which-comes-first-the-behavior-or-the-cue/comment-page-1/#comment-8021 Mary Hunter Tue, 01 May 2012 02:28:36 +0000 http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=858#comment-8021 <p>Hi Nicole,</p> <p>Thanks for the long comment!</p> <p>I will send you a e-mail privately and we can discuss this. :)</p> <p>cheers,</p> <p>Mary</p> Hi Nicole,

Thanks for the long comment!

I will send you a e-mail privately and we can discuss this. :)

cheers,

Mary

]]> By: Nicole Fanshier http://stalecheerios.com/blog/training-tips/which-comes-first-the-behavior-or-the-cue/comment-page-1/#comment-8002 Nicole Fanshier Wed, 25 Apr 2012 06:01:36 +0000 http://stalecheerios.com/blog/?p=858#comment-8002 <p>Hello,<br>   I am a beginning clicker trainer and I am slightly confused about putting a behavior on cue and then getting the cue on stimulus control. I have Alexandra Kurland's "The Click that Teaches Step by Step in Pictures" book and Leslie Pavlich's "Colt Starting the Natural Horse" and have recently rented Alexandra's Loopy Training dvd disc 1 from giddyupflix.  I have learned some lessons the hard way, like don't skip any steps in this training process, as I started targeting without the saftey barrier and created a pushy headstrong monster out of my new colt. But, after some initial frustration and uncertainty, I realized my mistake and went backwards in my steps and got behind the gate to work with the target :) Once I had a clean loop ( I didn't know at the time that was what we had, I was just bored with it and didn't want to bore him) I started not bringing the target. Instead, I just went to the gate and stood there. IMy initial response to the targeting behind the gate was, "I don't like that I am encouraging him to put his head over the gate." So I thought about what I wanted him to do. I wanted him to wait on the other side without putting his head over the gate. So I stood in front of the gate and waited for him to take his head off the gate and put it back on his side. When he did that on his own, I clicked and treated (capturing the behavior?). He caught on very quickly. From there, we worked on duration of head on his side of the gate.  When I felt safer about being around him with food, I then put a halter and lead on him and immediatley starting working on backing up (with AK's halter and lead cue) to get him out of my space now that there was no gate. He has also got this very quickly. I now have him backing with a hand signal and verbal cue of "Back Up."  I am still clicking and treating this behavior every time he does it. Here is my problem at the moment though. Mostly, he backs on my cues. But sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes, he hesitates and then does it. Sometimes, all I have to do is walk into his pasture (to groom or put his halter on) and he offers me this behavior to cue me to give him a treat. And I don't know what to do now. After watching AK's Loopy training tonight, she said that this is cue communication and a good thing. But I don't always want this behavior. I want it when I cue it, and I don't mind it as a default behavior as it is much better than a pushy bargy horse, but I also now know that this is not a clean loop and therefore I need to fix it somehow. But I just feel stuck. I would like to say that I do have one behavior completely trained (but I am not really sure how it got so ingrained) and that is the disengagement of the hindquarters. All I have to do is touch him lightly on his hip with intention of movement and he swings them right out of the way. I was working on this when I first started targeting at liberty in his pasture per Leslie Pavlich's methods. I abandoned it when I got behind my gate. But for some reason, this relinqishing to hip pressure has stuck. I don't click for it and he doesn't offer it unless I cue it. That is how I want all of my clicker trained things to look in the end, right? Sorry for the long post!</p> Hello,
   I am a beginning clicker trainer and I am slightly confused about putting a behavior on cue and then getting the cue on stimulus control. I have Alexandra Kurland's “The Click that Teaches Step by Step in Pictures” book and Leslie Pavlich's “Colt Starting the Natural Horse” and have recently rented Alexandra's Loopy Training dvd disc 1 from giddyupflix.  I have learned some lessons the hard way, like don't skip any steps in this training process, as I started targeting without the saftey barrier and created a pushy headstrong monster out of my new colt. But, after some initial frustration and uncertainty, I realized my mistake and went backwards in my steps and got behind the gate to work with the target :)  Once I had a clean loop ( I didn't know at the time that was what we had, I was just bored with it and didn't want to bore him) I started not bringing the target. Instead, I just went to the gate and stood there. IMy initial response to the targeting behind the gate was, “I don't like that I am encouraging him to put his head over the gate.” So I thought about what I wanted him to do. I wanted him to wait on the other side without putting his head over the gate. So I stood in front of the gate and waited for him to take his head off the gate and put it back on his side. When he did that on his own, I clicked and treated (capturing the behavior?). He caught on very quickly. From there, we worked on duration of head on his side of the gate.  When I felt safer about being around him with food, I then put a halter and lead on him and immediatley starting working on backing up (with AK's halter and lead cue) to get him out of my space now that there was no gate. He has also got this very quickly. I now have him backing with a hand signal and verbal cue of “Back Up.”  I am still clicking and treating this behavior every time he does it. Here is my problem at the moment though. Mostly, he backs on my cues. But sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes, he hesitates and then does it. Sometimes, all I have to do is walk into his pasture (to groom or put his halter on) and he offers me this behavior to cue me to give him a treat. And I don't know what to do now. After watching AK's Loopy training tonight, she said that this is cue communication and a good thing. But I don't always want this behavior. I want it when I cue it, and I don't mind it as a default behavior as it is much better than a pushy bargy horse, but I also now know that this is not a clean loop and therefore I need to fix it somehow. But I just feel stuck. I would like to say that I do have one behavior completely trained (but I am not really sure how it got so ingrained) and that is the disengagement of the hindquarters. All I have to do is touch him lightly on his hip with intention of movement and he swings them right out of the way. I was working on this when I first started targeting at liberty in his pasture per Leslie Pavlich's methods. I abandoned it when I got behind my gate. But for some reason, this relinqishing to hip pressure has stuck. I don't click for it and he doesn't offer it unless I cue it. That is how I want all of my clicker trained things to look in the end, right? Sorry for the long post!

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