Recently I watched a documentary film called In A Whisper
Impressive? Yes, very. It takes a very skilled and talented horse person to be able to take a horse through basic ground work exercises and then get the horse use to the saddle and rider in under three hours. However, what made an even bigger impression on me was how stressed and uncomfortable the horses look throughout most of the DVD. The horses are pushed hard and have little chance to think about or process anything. There is a bit of snorting and bucking and quite a bit of high headed horses with eyewhites showing.
The DVD is called In a Whisper because the three trainers it features, Josh Lyons, Pat Parelli, and Craig Cameron, are considered modern day horse whisperers. However, their actions resemble something much closer to shouting than whispering. During the skills test at the end, Josh Lyons abstains from loping his colt on the basis that the colt is not ready. In reality, the three colts weren’t ready for the majority of what was ask of them throughout the entire evening.
Many modern trainers focus on bonding with the horse, moving at the horse’s pace, and reducing the high levels of fear and stress often found in traditional training. By working under such a severe time restraint, principles get sacrificed. In the competition at the end, all three trainers are consistently kicking the colts and slapping them with their ropes to keep them moving forward. The colts are nervous and jumpy, and have trouble with many basic tasks, such as standing still, backing up, rein aids and leg aids. Yes all three colts are ridden and complete most of the tasks and obstacle course, but it sure ain’t pretty. And the horses sure don’t look like they’re having much fun.
It’s easy to point an acusatory finger at such an extreme example of rushed training. However, most trainers are guilty at some time or another of rushing the training process. At one time or another, we all ask for too much to soon or put the animal in a situation where they can’t possibly meet expectations. The culprit is usually human-imposed time restraints, whether it’s that big horse show in two months or expecting the dog to behave well in a completely new environment or even just getting frustrated at the animal when training doesn’t progress fast enough to meet your arbitrary goals.
The key to good training is to let it take the time it needs to take. An excellent trainer is to be able to recognize subtle signs of stress, nervousness or fear. New situations, new environments and the learning process can all be incredibly stressful for animals, especially animals who are new to training. When we train slower , build behaviors in small steps and make sure the animal fully understands our requests, training actually takes much less time. This is because we don’t have to waste time later undoing problems caused by sloppy, rushed training.
Pat Parelli, Craig Cameron and Josh Lyons all prove that it is possible to take a completely untrained horse and in 2 1/2 hours ride him through an obstacle course and set of tasks. However, just because something can be done, doesn’t not mean it should be done. Listen to your horse and watch his behavior and body language. He’ll tell you how fast or slow your training should progress.
Buy your own copy of In A Whisper Here
If you liked this, check out the follow up post, How long does it take to train a horse?
I don’t believe in colt starting contests – they aren’t about the horses they’re about the people competing. I’m also not impressed if a horse is compliant on the outside but not willing and soft on the inside. It’s important to take adequate time to build a proper foundation and relationship with the horse.
“I’m also not impressed if a horse is compliant on the outside but not willing and soft on the inside”
Exactly, Kate!
If the horse isn’t soft and willing on the inside, the rider usually ends up with problems and frustrations later on. Eventually, many of the “compliant” but unwilling horses get sick and tired of being compliant.
Mary
Amen Mary! I am going to refer as many as I can to this post!! thank you for writing it-
Thanks Jane!
“However, just because something can be done, doesn’t not mean it should be done.”
I totally agree with this!! I actually watched a challenge like this at an equine expo where I was competing in 2006. I can’t remember who all the trainers were, but I think one was John Lyons. And while, yes it was sort of impressive the progress they made with the horses I could tell most weren’t ready to be pushed like this and just the whole situation was bad. One trainer actually recognized his horses’ stress and called it quits for the horse partway through – which I was glad…although I’m sure some “uneducated” people probably just thought he just couldn’t do it.
The whole concept of these challenges are a bad idea – they force the trainers to rush because they are under time constraints and the horses pick up on this urgency. I think any good trainer should recognize this and NOT ENTER. Do they really need to prove their worth as trainers by rushing the training on a youngster?
I wonder what happens to these horses?
I imagine most of their groundwork and training has to be redone.
Mary, I’m a big fan of Monty Roberts, who also completely agrees with you! However, Monty starts a horse to accept saddle, bridle, and rider for the first time, at least those basics, in half an hour, without subjecting the horse to stress at any level that you describe. I would love to hear your comments about Monty Roberts’ “Join-Up”. My impression of Join-Up is that using the body language symbols that horses use with each other, that then correspond to the human concepts of positive and negative reinforcement, make a huge difference in keeping stress down for the horse as he learns. I think when the human is in sync with the horse’s body language, the time factor can be seriously shortened without tipping into the problems you rightly describe. Your comments would be appreciated.
Thanks for the comment, Gwen!
I started typing a comment response, but by the time it hit 500 words, I decided it better be a post of it’s own! I’ll try to post it tomorrow or the next day. However, I’m not a big fan of Monty Roberts (or most of the other natural horse trainers).
Mary
I would be delighted to see discussion about Monty Roberts. I would particularly like to understand the specific parts that are behavioral conditioning. I watched Monty at the San Francisco Cow Palace twice in the 1990s, and was blown away. I am very curious about your opinions. If you would write about Monty specifically, that would be appreciated because his method is quite distinct, I believe, from other ‘natural horsemen’. And thanks for commenting on my comment.
Mary,
This is a great post and I completely agree with your comments. I’ve been following your blog for a while (and don’t agree with all you have to say – to whit, clicker training, in my opinion, discourages horses from thinking for themselves, but we can get into this debate elsewhere and at a later time), but this post grabbed me. You are so right. You can make a horse do what you want on your terms and on your time schedule, but such an approach can be so costly in the long-term. Of course, the older I get, the more creative I become in finding methods that provide less stress for the horse and more safety for my injured body :-). Thanks for putting this out there.
P.S. I featured your blog in one of my Thursday equine blog summaries/pointers at http://www.HorseSenseAndCents.com/blog (it’s content only right now – hope to have the design complete in the next few weeks).
Hi Nanette,
Thank you for featuring me on your blog! Also, thanks for the thoughtful comment. I totally agree that approaches like this can be costly in the long term.
Why do you think clicker training discourages horses from thinking for themselves? This has been the exact opposite of my experience. I’d be interested in hearing about what your experience has been with clicker training.
Mary
Mary,
We all have our own experiences to draw from, don’t we :-). I find I always learn something from the experience of others (even if it’s what not to do).
I would be happy to have a sideline with you on my feelings about clicker (you are welcome to send an e-mail directly) as I do not feel this provides the space or the right forum for an indepth discussion, but, in short, I have found clicker to be right for dogs, but not horses. It gets the job done, but, particularly if your goal is a thinking performance horse, the student tends to become reliant on the treat and focused on pleasing their humans (vs. excited by the challenge and eager to operate as a team and a creative problem solving partner). It’s a short-cut that comes with a cost, in my opinion, of course.
ooh don’t take it elsewhere, I want to be in on it! Nanette, do you know that Jane Savoie (Grand Prix dressage rider, trainer, instructor, author) uses clicker training as does Steffan Peters? Jane has even included it (with her own twists) in her latest DVD series. Horses can and will move on. In my experience, horses become better thinkers and more motivated with CT. What kind of performance horses do you work with?
Hi Jane,
Sorry for taking so long to respond, but this has been a busy week.
Personally, I’d like to see higher level dressage tests (and even the lower level ones) created and read at the event vs. a rehearsed series of expected and timed requirements. That would really demonstrate the connection with horse and rider and the ability of both to work as a team.
On the clicker issue, I don’t agree that it teaches them to think (at least as most use it – although Mary’s link to the gal who indicates it’s more important to focus on what they are doing before the click . . . goes a long way toward making this a more effective training tool). Bottom line, I’ve found basic horsemanship resulting in building relationships with horses that encourage a thinking horse enthusiastic about a team approach for tackling challenge to be far more effective than any of the latest fads being presented as catch-all formula approaches. Each horse is different and being able to read their preferences for learning vs. trying to impart our pat lesson precepts makes for a much happier, engaged – and thinking – horse.
On your cited ‘experts’ my reaction to this is these must be truly incredible horses. There’s always the exceptional case – or the comfortable learners with what we decide is our right way – but I’ve found over the years that the best way to engage a horse is to listen with a creative approach to their stated needs. Clicker doesn’t offer horses the opportunity to be heard and understood. Instead, it puts our design on the learning process and conditions the horse to react vs. express.
As to your question, I’ve spent much of the past twenty years working with young and/or troubled TB racehorses. More recently, I’ve transitioned to Irish Draught Sport Horses.
Thank you all for your comments and I’m looking forward to following everyones discussion here. These speed training shows are all about a persons ego I agree. Reminds me of the old ‘snubbin posts’ concept of cowboy days…
Hmm Nanette- interesting thoughts. First, I listed those “experts” because of your “if your goal is a thinking performance horse” comment. I was simply listing an example of individuals who are certainly using clicker training with what are commonly seen as performance horses. Of course, there are any number of performance avenues and the problems with competition methods have nothing to do with clicker training.
And perhaps the “most” who you see use it are no better at clicker training than any other technique. I couldn’t agree more that a relationship with a horse which truly respects his/her preferences, strengths, weaknesses, etc is the way to go. Clicker training should not be a “trick” to teach anything. It is a form of communication that enables us to tell the horse when he or she has done something that we like- whether a skill that leads to a performance horse or a skill that keeps horse and handler safe to just hang out together. One still needs a huge box full of tools (including an ability and willingness to read the horse) in order to train horses.
I also know that troubled horses can have trouble with clicker training as they can with any type of training. These individuals need really careful attention so as not to overwhelm them with any type of request. But once they are in a place they feel emotionally as well as physically safe, then the opportunity to know when they have done something right is such a gift! So many of them have been punished for their efforts and never been told when they were right. They love to find that they can get creative in their attempts and work with a person as a partner who interacts with them in a fair and compassionate manner.
Great conversation- Mary I hope you’ll kick us out if we have unduly hijacked your blog ! 🙂
Jane,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I’m not of the camp that believes all those who are labeled as experts (self or otherwise) are horsemen. In fact, most true horsemen are very humble and will quickly admit the learning process never ends. I commend those who have achieved high levels of acclaim for their accomplishments, but that doesn’t mean their approaches are always right for the horse.
The horses I work with know when they’re doing something right. Body language, “good girl” (it seems I get mostly misunderstood fillies coming in here) accompanied by a pat or a scratch to start in their most favored attention spot, and the fact that someone is willing to try to listen to what they are attempting to communicate (this is huge) and respond with a flexible approach, sends the message loud and clear to most.
I get concerned with any formula approach put out there as right for all when it comes to horse communication and training. In my experience, every horse is different and pat approaches may work for some, but the challenging cases (who are often also the the most stalwart and determined competitors) seek a give-and-take approach that let’s them help choose how to proceed.
Of course, I’m not a clicker “expert” :-), nor am I likely to compete on an Olympic team, breed a Triple Crown winner or be heralded 1000 years from now for my equine insight. Still, I’ve seen hundreds of cases come in here and it saddens me to witness what other’s have unwittingly done to these poor horses by trying to systemitize the early training with equines that don’t fit into their minds-eye program. A good number of these cases have come from people who are self-described pros.